Catalogue description NOTES of ANCIENT RECORDS and ROLLS for the LORD of KIERY, &c.

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Title: NOTES of ANCIENT RECORDS and ROLLS for the LORD of KIERY, &c.

In the tower of London.--Thomas FitzMaurice, 5 knights fees in Theod of Elenry, in the cantred of Formoyll.


Five knights fees in Theod of Enemerith, which is burgage in Limerick.--1st year of K. John, Mem. 82.


Moris FitzThomas of Kierie, inserted amongst the Lords of Ireland, in a letter from Edward I. for expedition into Scotland.--25, Edw. I.


Camden fol. 194 of Ireland.--Nicholas FitzMoris, Lord of Kiery, knighted by John Earl of Kildare.--Edw. II.


In the Tower.--This Lo. Nicholas was written unto among the Lords of Ireland for another expedition into Scotland.--8 Edw. II., Mem. 34.


Camden fol. 826, in the disc, of Ireland.--Maurice Fitz Nicholas, Lo. of Kierie, imprisoned by the Earl of Desmond, viz., Moris Fitz Thomas.--11 Edw. III


Camden fo. 194, of Ireland.--The Lo. John FitzNicholas succeded his brother Moris, and was taken prisoner by O'Brien. 45 Edw. III.


Newman's office in Dublin.--This Lo. was summoned to the Parliament in Ireland as Lo. of Parliament.--Parl. 48, Edw. III


The Lo. Recovery.--Edmond FitzMoris, Lo. of Kierry, recovered parcel of the lands conferred by John upon his ancestors in an assize of novel deseisin in the Earl of Desmond's liberty court at Dingle.--Anno primo, Mem. 7.


A grant to the Lo. of Kiery.--Made by one John FitzRichard to Thomas FitzMoris, the same being in Latin where he is called Dominus Thomas FitzMoris, captain of his nation ac Baro Kierigiae.--5 Edw. VI.


Several testimonials.--Of the loss of the said Lord Videnses, taken by certain of the Earl of Desmond's men, approved by good witnesses, in which, together with many other authentic escripts, the said Lord Baron is called Baro proecipuus et fidelis.--6 Edw. VI.


Stanihurst.--Stanihurst in his chronicle calls him Mc Moris alias FitzGerald, Baron of Kiery, placing him before Slane, and ranking the nobility of Ireland in their due places. Fo. 32. In his Description of Ireland.


Hooker's Hollinshed, &c.--Hooker's Hollinsede and other chronicles follow those words, style, and rank.--Fo. 38 in the description of Ireland.


Molynax King-at-Arms in Ireland.--A Parliament roll produced by Molynax where the Lo. of Kiery is foremost of all the Barons.


In Doctor Usher's book.--The Earl of Sussex's letter to one Usher, late King-at-Arms in Ireland, for the naming and placing of that nobility, and after placing and naming McMoris, Baron of Kiery, before Slane. Dated 13 October, 1563.


Newman office.--A Parliament roll wherein the Lo. of Kierry did not sit, yet therein together with all the nobility misplaced, and yet named the Lord of Licksnawe, vulgariter appellatur Baro Kierrigiae.--2 Eliz.


Merald Leverett's book in Ireland.-- Thomas FitzMoris, knighted by Sir Henry Sydney, Deputy by the name of Lo. of Kierry and Licksnawe.--A.D. 1567.


With Mr. Molynax King-at-Arms in Ireland.--A book of heraldry found in Cahir Castle by the late Earl of Essex, where the Lo. McMorris, Lo. Baron of Kierry, hath his coat out consent, &c.,--3 Ed. II. This record names him only Lord of Stradbaly Slane, which is but Lord of the town of Slane, but not Lord Baron of Slane, which showeth plainly he was but Lord of that manor, and commanded the house to be pulled down, being presented in his leet a purpuesture or nuisance, which every Lord of the Leet may do, and not therefore Lord Baron as is supposed.


2. A pardon procured at the instance of one Travers, a knight, and the Baron of Slane.--8 Edw. II.


The answer of the second.--In this record the said knight hath precedeney of the Baron of Slane, which if he had been Lo. Baron had been otherwise placed, which still confirms him only a "barronet or barrett."


3. An assignment of dower to the Baron of Slane's wife. Edw. III.


The answer of the 3rd.--In this record the Baron's wife is not called lady or Baroness of the Lo. of Slade but wife to the Baron of Slade, where in like cases the true appellations or denominations are chiefly to be observed, which proveth plainly the Baron of Slane a Baronet and no Lo. Baron; and in this record it is plainly seen he held his lands immediate of another mesne Lo. and not of the King in grand serjeancy, as a Lo. Baron should do.


4. A record excusing the Baron of Slane and one Mr. Walter Dillon for their absence from the Parliament.--8 Edw. VI.


The answer to the fourth.--This record may be in that the Baron of Slane was then knight of the shire with Mr. Dillon; for being Lo. Baron of Slane, he might make his proxy, and so need no remittal for his absence ; for it is well known that no Dillon was ever Lo. of Parliament in Ireland, whereby he might gain any toleration for his absence.


A general answer to all the records and escripts of the Lo. of Slane.--If upon these records or escripts, framed by their own notaries, it may be concluded that the Flemings were Barons of Slane, yet no record calleth them or any of them Dominus Baro, that may make him Lo. of Parliament; for there are divers gentlemen who had the appellation of Barons of as ancient date as the Baron of Slane pretendeth him to be a Lord and yet never was any of them Lord Baron or ever summoned to any Parliament, whose posterity to this day have their denominations Barons, as for insample :--


Divers of the Husseyes were called Barons of Galtrim in the years, viz.,--18 Edw. I., 4 Ri. II, 9 M., 3 M., 6.


Hugh FitzOwen, Baron of Birr.--4 Edw. III.


Divers of the Fipoes, Barons of Skrine.--6 Edw. III., 22 Ri. II.


Harward, Barons of the Skrine.--19 Ri. II.


Nagles, Barons of Navane.--Edw. III., 22 R. II.


Hugh Terrell, Baron Castle Cnocke--39 Edw. III.


Roger FitzMelo, Baron of Auverck.--31 Edw. III.


Thomas St. Leger, Baron of Bargie.--5 R. II.


Thomas Daniel, Baron of Rathwire.--15 Edw. IV.


To whom may be added these ensuing gent. who daily are called Barons and yet no Lords.


Barons by appellations and not Lls. Barons at all.--FitzGerald, Baron of Burnchurch.


FitzGerald, Baron of Baron of Brownesford.


Purcell, Baron of Loughmoe.


Powers, Barons of Donail and Rathcormacke.


Butler, Baron of Balynoa, with many others. Yea, and in England, the Baron of Burford, the Baron of Kinderton, with divers in Chesire. All which in their common appellations, charters, and evidences are called Barons yet not Lords, and such a one was the Baron of Slane.


If the King should summon any of those Barons to the Parliament, and the proving of his antiquity of appellation of Baron should serve for his placing, he would gain precedence (excepting few) of all the Barons of the Ireland, which might marvellous breed confusions as the Lo. of Slane intends.


An honest respecting oath.-- One Veldon deposed before the Lo. Deputy and Council on St. George's Day about twenty years ago, in the town of Kilkenny, that the then Lo. of Slane in station took place of the Lo. of Kierry father to the now Lo., yea, and that the Lo. of Slane's horse was led accordingly before the Lo. of Kierry's horse then.


The same worthily confuted.--The now Lo. Chancellor of Ireland, the Earl of Thomond, the Knight Marshal of Ireland (acknowleged by the said Veldon to be then there) affirmed at Council table, in the sight of the said Veldon, that the said Lo. of Kierry was not there at all, and the now Lo. of Doonboyn also affirms the same.


Notes urged by the Lo. of Slane to deprive the Lo. McMoris of his appellation of Baron of Kierry, which is all his aim.


Objections, from Camden.--Camden, distinguishing the houses of the Geraldine, names McMoris to be of that family, who is now called (saith he) Baron of Licksnawe.


Answered.--Herein Camden saith, "Is now Baron of Licksnawe," upon publishing of his book, but in his Annals and other antiquities of ancient date he calleth him Lo. of Kierry.


2nd Objection from Sir John Davis' book.--Sir John Davies in his book noticing the several counties palatine in Ireland names the Earl of Desmond, Lord of the county palatine of Kierry.


Answered.--It is well known, and plainly to be seen by many records, letters of the King's Parliament Rolls, and full reference of all chronicles, that in several times, the Earls of Desmond and the Lords of Kierry have been together severally written unto, yea, and at wars together.


Answered at full.--And that the appellation of a Lord, a liberty palantine, make him not Lo. Baron of that county, for the Lo. of Ormonde is not called Lo. Baron of Typerairie, neither was the Lo. of Desmonde called Lord Baron of Kierry, as by divers records, yea, by the recovery in the said Lord of Desmonde's said liberty court sued by the now Lo. of Kierry's great grandfather may appear.


3rd Objection.--In Newman's office of Ireland there is an order conceived between the Earl of Desmond and Patricke FitzMoris FitzJohn, then Lo. of Keiry, framed by the Earl's notaries, wherein they call McMoris capitanus suce nationis only.


Answered.--This argues the Earl's ancient malice towards that house, and that he would as well deprive the Lo. of Kierry of his territory as honours, as he continually attempted and practised.


4th Objection.--Queen Mary's patent granted to the Lo. Baron, this Lord's grandfather, all the lands and territories that the Lo. Edmond FitzMoris had, wherein he is called, vulgariter appellatur, Baro de Licksnawur, and therefore (say they) not Baron of Kierry.


Answered.--It is formerly cited that this Edmond recovered his lands, conferred upon his ancestors by K. John, by the name of the Baron of Kierry, as by the recovery may appear; and that the said Lo. Thomas was and is in Parliament Rolls named Baro de Licksnawe vulgariter appellatur, Baro Kierrigoe. And also that the said Lo. Thomas was knighted by the name of Lo. of Kierry and Licksnawe, as is formerly noted and inserted ; which plainly confirms the continuance of the appellation of Kierry.


5th Objection.--That the Earl of Desmond's son and heir hath been called Lo. Baron of Kierry and not the Lo. McMoris.


Answer.--It is evidently known that the Earl of Desmond's son and heir has been called Lo. Baron of Inshyqyn and not of Kierry; for it is proved in 25 Edw. I. that Moris FitzThomas, this Lord of Kierry's ancestor, was Lo. of Kierry before that Moris FitzThomas was created Earl of Desmonde, 3 Edw. III., so as his son might have no appellation in Kierry at that time. Neither can there be better inducement to estrange the appellation of Kierry from the Earl of Desmond and his son than that which is formerly proved by the several records, and touched in the former answer of the second point they produced by Sir John Davis' book.


6th Objection.--That there have been several Lords of Kierry and Licksnawe, and that the Lo. McMoris is Lo. of Licksnawe created of late time.


Answer.--This question I hope is sufficiently resolved, yet for further satisfaction, if there have been several Barons of Kierry and Licksnawe by prescription, writs, or creation, let them prove or produce whether they have been severally seated or upon one stage together, what records can they show of their several derivations or creations, what were their several territories, or when was the Lo. of Licksnawe admitted Baron, when as no Lo. was allowed Baron but by patent of creation since the beginning of King Henry the Sixths reign, from which time the Lo. of Slane cannot miss to see and peruse all records of creation.


7th formerly touched.--Or if vainly they would surmise (notwithstanding these reasons,) that the Earl of Desmond or his son were Lords of Kierry, contrary to all the rolls, &c., why did the Earl of Desmond commit himself or his heir (for making war against him) into prison, keep himself or his son at streight diet, till he was starved to death, or what Lo of Desmond was called Nicholas FitzMoris or Moris FitzNicholas Lo. of Kierry. Whereas Moris FitzThomas, Earl of Desmond, in anno. 1339, used Moris FitzNicholas Lo. of Kierry that time in manner aforesaid.


8th Objection.--Wherefore was the appellation of Kierry discontinued and Licksnawe used for the same ?


Answer.--It is formerly well proved that the appellation of Kierry successively continued in the Lo. McMoris, until this Lord's father, without addition of Licksnawe, but that the Earl of Desmond's greatness scorning that any should have denomination out of his territories, wrought all means to prove the Lo. of Kierry to be called Lo. of Licksnawe. And, the rather, to suppress and disable the rent of the acres (formerly touched) being the chief rent due to the Lo. of Kierry, which was paid in the late Earl of Desmond's fathers time, the Earl of Desmond and he only giving that name of Licksnawe at first.


A true assertion notable.--The common appellation of most Lords of Ireland is not by their place of creation, but according an ancient custom used in the kingdom, viz., in calling the nobility by their surnames or ancestors names, as Viscount Butevant is called Barie More, Viscount Formoie, Roch, the Lo. Viscount Gormanstowne, Preston of Gormanstowne, the Lo. of Athenry, McGeorge, the Lo. of Kierry, McMoris Kierry, the Lo. Coursie, McPatricke, the Lo. of Dooneboyne, McPiercie, the Lord of Upper Ossery, McGily Patricke, and the Lo. of Kiline, Plunkett of Kiline; and shall all these lose their due appellations or denominations for being called by these names ? No! neither doth the Lo. of Kierry, being always named, reputed, and acknowleged by the name of McMoris Kierry and not McMoris of Licksnawe.


The Lord of Slane and his counsel's chief refuge was in denying the Lo. McMoris to be Lo. of Kierry, and hereupon the matter was censured by the Lo. Deputy and Council, who ordered at two several days as follows:


11th November 1614.


The first order.--It was ordered that the Lo. McMoris, Lo. Baron of Kierry and Licksnawe, should have and enjoy his possession of precedency from the Lo. of Slane until the latter should produce better records or proofs of his side, to which he had his desired time until the 7th day of that month. At that time the Lo. of Slane seemed partly contented with this order, but that the Lo. of Delvin and others the Pale Barons, fostering their displeasure against the Lo. of Kierry, incited him to persist in challenging place, and that they would also contest against the Lo. of Kierry; and in especial the Lo. of Delvin, to which the Lo. of Slane yielded. and so prepared for the second day.


18th November.


The second order.--Upon full hearing and mature determining of the cause and consideration of all the Lo. of Slane's evidences, and allegations not in this book wholly inserted, and without hearing or seeing of many special records lately gathered by the Lo. of Kierry and herein expressed, it was ordered by the Lo. Deputy and Council, that the Lo. of Kierry and Licksnawe should have and hold his place of precedency from the said Lo. of Slane, until the said Lo. of Slane should sufficiently prove his Lordship were not Lo. of Kierry, or till his Majesty's pleasure were known to the contrary.


Whereupon the Lo. of Slane, impatient of the order and seeming much to spurn thereat, besought the Lo. Deputy's favour to depart and not to sit in Parliament, which my Lo. Deputy resisted. Whereupon the Lo. of Slane protested he would not sit, so as the Lo. Deputy was forced to require him upon his duty of allegiance to sit in Parliament and take the place according the order, to which at last he yielded.


Endorsed by Carew.



Date: 1615
Held by: Lambeth Palace Library, not available at The National Archives
Former reference in its original department: MS 600, p. 162
Language: English
Physical description: 11 Pages.
Unpublished finding aids:

Calendar of the Carew Manuscripts preserved in the Archiepiscopal Library at Lambeth, ed. J. S. Brewer & W. Bullen (6 vols., 1867-73), vol. V, document 162.

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